John

Just catching up on this and weirdly also started watching it last week. Drawn by a dear friend who passed this year but visited often and also said great things about Iran and it’s people…and of course we know Marjan ! 🙂 would love to visit

The BMC are wrong. Simple. For all the reasons Andrew has posted. And this just isn’t the same as driving a car. If driving cars killed circa 40,000 people in under two months there would be an outcry. And actually killed whilst there were restrictions on buying and driving cars. The Blitz only killed 32,000 and that took nearly a year. You just cannot compare this to the flu or anything else. Yes it is down to individual risk assessment and choice. If someone climbs with a friend and they meet the risk criteria, take protective precautions and miraculously stay apart a reasonable distance then not only is that an amazing achievement in a sport like ours, yes it is their choice. But if they don’t, if they have an accident, if they help transmission then they are removing that choice from someone else. Just because others bend the rules it is not our freedom of choice to do similar. Remember, we are able to have this debate because some freedoms have had to be limited not in spite of them. I will not judge others if they make the choice to climb. Just don’t put the Club’s name under the activity until access is accepted and the lock-down is properly relaxed. Which it very clearly hasn’t been.

Hi
I defer to my earlier post. Noting the news today where inhabitants of the Lake District are effectively putting up barriers to make it clear that visitors are not welcome yet. I guess other people in other local beauty spots and climbing venues will feel the same. The remains a serious risk to reputation and future access, that has taken years to negotiate, and, even at popular established places, remains tenuous. We all recall the recent night time climbing activity that nearly had us all banned from Almscliffe.
Then there is the individual and collective risk. The community infection rate is relatively low. But then lock-down is still largely in place and as a region we have been fairly good at compliance. But it is out there still, without a doubt. It’s impact individually if infected varies according to a number of factors. Age is a big one, youth helps but isn’t a sinecure, men seem to be more affected, BMI and having a long term health issue, in particular diabetes, are significant risks. Members of the BAME community also seem to be affected more. Consistent exposure in certain settings also seems to be a factor, especially for health and care workers; hence the real PPE concerns and the youth of some who died.
Protection and prevention of spread assists but has to be applied correctly. The 2m (1.5m in Germany) rule is really based on standing still, activity increases the risk distance, coughing sweating, spitting also don’t help. Face coverings do help but are time limited and frankly, unless a real clinical mask, they are there to catch your spit and as public reassurance rather than actually stop inhalation of other peoples germs. Clinical gloves, hand washing (properly not just a quick rinse) are best, with hand gel an added extra. Soap is better.
Then there is the risk to the wider community and health care system. If an accident happens someone has to pick up the pieces. In fairness A and E has never been so quiet but an injured party still has to be treated as a viral risk until it is known that one doesn’t exist. CPR isn’t recommended atm for obvious reasons so “at the scene” you had better hope that the emergency crew can port a defib. Possible as they aren’t that large now, but depends where you are I suppose. Then of course you are possibly in hospital adding to the NHS bill which is already going off the scale. And of course, back to the individual risk, if you want to catch an illness, hang out in a hospital.
I feel no responsibility for people who choose to climb outdoors without training and preparation referred to by Oli; other than walking over and advising them to go on a course or read a book. I would only worry that by damaging the venue, irritating the locals or tragically hurting themselves they then fxxxd it up for the rest of us by their actions.
My son and his partner, effectively professional outdoors people, Miriam climbs competitively, furloughed and frustrated though they are, are sitting on their hands, running, doing finger board exercises, gardening etc just like the rest of us. Will’s wall is unlikely to re-open for a while.
If people must go, then consider the risk factors beforehand, not just in climbing terms: Individual risk, Community risk (to others you are with or that are around you) and reputation risk for our sport. For example, if you are under 30, female with no underlying health conditions and want to go easy bouldering on land away from crowds where you have permission and easy access to rescue then your risk level is negligible. But if you are a 57 year old man, climbing at your grade boundary, with a friend with whom you don’t cohabit at a popular venue in the Peak, packed with others, that is half an hours walk in…well…
I miss climbing, I especially miss the hills and mountains. And because I love both those things so much I will wait until I deem it right, at an acceptable risk level, as an individual, for the community and for climbing’s reputation and future. For me and those I care about, I don’t think that is yet, it may only be weeks away I grant, and even then it may only be a window if the infection rates rise again, but it will come soon and the hills will still be there.

J 🙂